Its very interesting that Fipronil [ the drug used in Frontline ]has been banned for use in any product for any reason in France because of its known side effects.

What are the side effects???? I currenlty use Frontline on both of my dogs...

I too use Frontline on occasion and would like to know the side effects. (I've never seen any that I know of).

I used Frontline a number of years ago on a cat & dog. The cat was fine but the dog got a lump the size of a golfball & redness/itching where I'd put the frontline. He needed a cream from the vet to reduce the swelling & itching - from memory it was steroid based. He has had reactions to other things so I assumed he was just overly sensitive.

I switched to gentle flea rinse/shampoos & tablet flea control instead.

Steve, is this just for human medications or animals too?

VERY interested - more details please!

Fortunately I haven't used Frontline but I have on occasion used Advantage or Revolution. Haven't got any at the moment, I wonder if the same "banned" drug is in them too.
A lot of these things we are told by "all knowing" scientists that they are "safe" only to dicover later these products are carcinogenic or have some other terrible affect on our animals or us.

This is a ban on any product at all that has fipronil in it. The article sited 6 products in all which contain this that to date have been sold in France and are available for use on pets in Australia Frontline is one of them but it didnt specifically name the other products. The danger is to the environment and animals. Id assume that considering that this is a pesticide that there wouldnt be any human meds with this in [I hope] .
Heres a good link

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/infoservic...ic/fipronil.htm

Here's a link to a site that gives background on the suspension in France of use of products for protecting agricultural crops....& which contain fipronil.

The suspension had originated from suspicions that such products used in agriculture were associated with widespread death of bees.

There followed a continuing debate on the factual base for such an association. Opposing studies are presented....& there's argument from both sides how valid they are. Also there's different vested interests in either suspending agricultural products containing the chemical or NOT doing so (like a manufacturer).

Just to add another perspective, this site argues against the suspension.


http://www.basf.de/en/corporate/investor/n..._4FtH4bUtbsf-x2

I have no idea which side is right.....but only that this remains a hotly debated issue in Europe. It revolves around the use of fipronil-containing products in agriculture & an association claimed with the death of bees.

Here's the Australian response to the Frontline issue - in a nutshell it may be banned:

http://www.apvma.gov.au/chemrev/fipronil.pdf

While we are on the topic some info re ProHeart6:

Heartworm Medication Raises Questions

· A CBS 2 Special Report

Mar 1, 2004 10:59 pm US/Eastern
NEW YORK (CBS) The focus of an investigative story by our sister-station WBZ-TV Boston is a popular medication being used to prevent heartworm, a potentially deadly disease. WBZ's Joe Bergantino has learned that after taking this drug thousands of dogs have gotten sick, hundreds have even died.

Joanne Plumer treats all of her dogs like members of the family.

So she immediately noticed something was wrong with her 13-year-old named April. "She couldn't stand up any more, she couldn't eat, her mouth was full of blisters, her fur was falling out."

It all started the day after April got a shot of the heartworm medication ProHeart 6. Three weeks later, April had to be put to sleep.

"We were devastated with April. We were totally devastated with April. She was my baby," Joanne recalled.

Within a few weeks, Joanne's other dog, 10-year-old Cuji, also treated with ProHeart 6, got very sick. Cuji died three months after getting her shot.

"She went completely blind. Then you know, she started coughing and coughing and she couldn't catch her breath and we checked her out and she had complete kidney failure," Joanne remembered.

These are not isolated cases.

WBZ's I-Team investigation found that in the past two and a half years the FDA has received more than 4,000 reports of dogs getting sick after getting a shot of ProHeart 6. And more than 400 dogs have died nationwide.

The FDA says it's been able to link ProHeart 6 to a small percentage of those cases but even those numbers are, in the FDA's words, "a cause for concern." The FDA is investigating.

In fact, the FDA has twice told the makers of ProHeart 6 to change its labeling, most recently asking the company to add that there have been rare reports of death.

"I think this is just the tip of the iceberg," says Veterinarian Bob Rogers. He wonders why the FDA has not taken the drug off the market.

The FDA's answer: it believes the medication could potentially save the lives of more dogs than it harms.

But Dr. Rogers disagrees. "I have seen veterinary drugs pulled off the market when there were less deaths involved than this."

As for the manufacturer of ProHeart 6, a company called Fort Dodge Animal Health, it declined an on-camera interview but released this statement saying "Millions of U.S. dogs have benefited from the heartworm protection provided by ProHeart 6. The reports submitted to the FDA represent a fraction of 1% of total doses sold…and the product has been proven to be safe."

Donna Sadoski doesn't believe that. Her 11-year-old dog Sammy went blind after getting a shot of ProHeart 6.

"I wonder how many animals will be put to sleep? How many animals will have life threatening problems they will have to deal with for the rest of their lives before someone stops this medicine from actually being given to them," Donna told WBZ.

The makers of ProHeart 6 say they do not believe their heartworm medication caused Donna's and Joanne's dogs to get sick.

But the FDA continues to investigate, at this point asking the company to find out if there are any impurities in the drug's formula that may be causing problems.


(MMIV, CBS Broadcasting Inc., All Rights Reserved.)

I have used Frontline on both my dogs for a while and there have been no side affects. I know a lot of people who use it and no side affects...


But I am moving away from Frontline because I think it is loosing its effectiveness to fight fleas. When the humidity was really bad about three weeks ago - fleas were out of control. I was frontlining my kids every week and still I had fleas. It was frustrating (and expensive ).

I have in the last week been introduced to a natural product that is chemical free - I was a bit sceptical of its effectiveness, but it appears to have worked. I am currently getting some more information from the distributor about it - but the best thing is that it is a natural product - free of chemicals. You spray it on the dog or you put it on after washing and don't rinse out. You can also spray it around your house. It looks promising and I am seriously considering leaving tick collars on my kids and using this natural product and giving the Frontline a big miss.

If I am happy with this natural product I am considering selling it at the kennels because I think most people would prefer a natural defense to fleas. If anyone is interested I will post when I know a little bit more from the manufacturer.

Cheers

Amanda

I have heard over and over again about Frontline loosing its effectiveness.

We changed to advantage and it was brilliant.

I am now using Advantage with my rats as Ivermectin (which is in er... revolution?? guessing) can send animals steril in a short amount of time. no good when using on breeding animals!

(I heard that Ivermectin had been trialled with dogs and the side effects were not good. that is more oral though I believe and not topical - though the rats have been oral with ivermectin)

There is a thread awhile ago titled "FRontline goes Flop" re. fipronil. Not in regard to it's efficacy or lack of, but the dangers to the human family.
I have the Doc on file somewhere, if anyone is interested email me and Ill send it in the reply
wetpaws@ihug.com.au

Yeah, I get that from customers at work, every weekend.

I too have heard of frontline going inneffective. ME and most of our clients have always stuck to Advantage.

TKS, the ivermectin is in the heartworm part of revolution. (Thus advantage duo also has it.) I am not going to use ivermectin on any dogs that I may breed with in the future, but I think it's fine for pet dogs. This is a spot on application.

I'd appreciate any more info on it.

Does Advantage protect against the paralysis tick? I didn't think it did, I am sure that is why I haven't used it. Is it Advantage that is a heartworm and flea protection?.

Cheers

Amanda

I've used Advantage before- the only thing with it is that if the dog is fully immersed in water, eg swimming, bathing, it does lose effectiveness. From memory, the instructions also admitted to this.. it was an effective product though.

Hi Amanda,

Advantage will kill the fleas, larvea, and sterilise eggs.
Advantage Plus will also treat the dog for heartworm

I don't think Advantage protect dogs against (any) ticks.

Dagobah, as far as I know Advantage is waterproof as long as you wait 48 hours after application before you wet the dog. You can put it on as soon as the dog is fully dry.

Amanda,

Advantage does not treat for any ticks - just fleas and with the Plus for heartworm

Revolution treats for heartworm and fleas

Frontline supposedly treats for fleas and ticks

I recently purchased a new Frontline spray for the Himmy, he has a severe allergie to fleas/sand flies etc.

I have had to spray him x 2 in the last 4 weeks, very unusual, could not find a flea on him but he has 2 sores which indicate he must have had some.

Before with Frontline I rarely sprayed him more often then 4 months apart (indoor cat ) and had no problems, I think Frontline is definately not performing.

Wonder if I can get a refund at the Vet's ? ($27.95 is a lot to pay for a product that doesn't perform)

(seems more people are not happy so perhaps that way we can let Vet's know via refund/complaints that the product is not up to scratch ? )

ok, had my rant.........

I have two large dogs, so frontline has cost me a fortune... A couple of weeks ago I decided to buy the 250ml spray as well - set me back $55 dollars. A pack of three applications sets me back $60. EXPENSIVE. I was prepared to pay the cost because it protected against ticks and fleas and both are a problem where I live... but now that the flea protection is not working... I think it is better to go for a tick collar (approx $11) which lasts 2 months and use a shampoo or natural spray to combat fleas... This is what I am going to try anyway.

I am definately going to complain to my vet too.

Cheers

Amanda

Hi LMD,
the advantage only does fleas, but the Advantage Duo (not plus guys - that's frontline!!) does h worm as well.

Watch out for tick collars - many have lots of nasties in them that can make dogs and kids really sick. (ESpecially if you have 2 or more dogs and they play bite eachother around the neck area.)

We had a border collie have an inverted bowel spontaneously from just wearing a tick collar for 2 hours. The company actually admitted that it was a reaction to the product.

I sounds like I am the only one who is not having a problem with Frontline.

I use the Fontline Plus spot on every two weeks (yes expensive when you need to buy for the largest weight range) and have never seen a single flea on my dog. No problems with ticks either. We are right next to the bush so I am always worried about them.

I have been using permoxin which I purchased from a vet. Its a very concentrated solution and you use 10 mils max per bath or you can dilute and spray on your animals on a weekly basis. Its a much more cost effective way of treating your dogs, and can also be used on horses. Its also for ticks as well.


Colleen

I usually use Frontline on my dogs, but have to admit that I have not applied it for at least 3 months due to the fact that I am trying to keep one of my dogs as chemical free as possible... I have had no issues with fleas this summer, but our dogs are mainly house dogs, and I keep the house relatively clean...

I am purely of the opinion now that the heartworm & flea treatments produced by these large commercial corporations are potentially dangerous, even life threatening.

It has not been proven, but I believe my dog's immune disease may be the cause of Ivermectin used heartworm treatment (once a year injection), and am now trying to look for alternative treatments, so if anyone has any info on chemical free treatments - I'm all ears!!!!

Glad to see Advantage is the way to go so it seems, I have only used Advantage, despite being told Frontline was better by my vet... < they were promoting the product >

I think I better get the new advantage duo? from now on.. Thanks guys.

<I've used frontline spray on my cats and it only lasted 2weeks, plus they hated the spray>

Advantage IMO lasts longer on my dogs than the recommended 4 weeks, more like 8 weeks with my boy.. but then again he isn't bathed very often so maybe why.

I have seen a test in where they test Frontline, Advantage and Revolution. They had 15 dogs of the same breed (lab I think). The dogs where washed every week in Maleseb shampoo and after the bath 100 fleas where put on the dog. The Frontline Plus was working for 99.9% after 4 weeks, 98% after 6 weeks. Advantage 97% after 4 weeks, 95% after 6 wks, and revolution was even lower.

The test was done by Frontline. I got this info by a workseminar

addited to say

I never had problems with fleas, dispite me bringing home dozens, until last year. The last few months I have been slack with putting it on so now I really have to fight as I found 15 fleas on 1 dog, 5 on the other and 0 on the third. The 2 females were sprayed yesterday and the male had the top spot as he never seem to have fleas (must be working for him)

Frontline also admits that the Frontline Spray is better for the allergic dog than Frontline Plus.

Please please be careful with drugs that have Ivermectin in it( eh Heartgard, Revolution etc). I am a Collie Rough exhibitor and our breed, Shelties, Australian Shpeherds just to name a few have extreme sensitivity to this drug, can cause severe paralysis , stroke and death. my own Collie many years ago haemeorraged after just one tablet of Heartgard. the weird thing is that a lot of Vets think Revolution is safe for collies tec, well it is not. it contains a sister drug to Ivermection. DR Kylie Maynard form NSW University is undertaking a study at present into ivermectin sensitivity in dogs.

For heartworm and flea control I use Sentinel monthly tablets( no ivermectin ) and occasionally apply Frontline in warmer months for added protection as my collies are regulars at both shows and Obedience.

So would be very interested into what side effects frontline is causing in france.
Colleen

Well, this may be my last post on DOL as I'm sure to get shot down in huge flames!
The more I read about all these chemical additives, preparations for our dogs and the nasty effects they have, the more I'm convinced that we are pumping too many poisons into them. In over 50 years of dogs I've ever only given the usual puppy inoculations then one 12 months booster. I've wormed puppies regularly then from 12 months have had a regular check done for worms and only wormed if there were any present. At the same time had the dogs tested for heartworm. The very few times I have had a flea problem I've used Malawash then sprayed the solution around the area. Maybe I've been lucky but I've only ever lost dogs to old age - with the one exception of Ben - started out as just discomfort - he was put on a drug which I was assured was safe and within 24 hours was in deep distress and had to be PTS after 3 weeks. On contacting the Company they admitted that the drug could have caused this. Over all the years, apart from an occasional anti-biotic shot for an injury, etc. this was the only time I had used an 'exotic' drug - never again! I've had dogs be 'off-colour' for a while, taken them to the Vet. to eliminate serious problems then used natural methods to recovery. As I said, perhaps I've been lucky,50 years of it, but I still think we tend to go overboard with administering drugs.

Peebles i agree totally with you,we are the same here very basic treatments if any & natural alternatives where possible.
The vets dish out many pills & potions but very few people ask about side effects,long term issues etc.
Many drugs do have bad side effects & many react to some breeds more than others.
For example rimaydl used on labs is a big problem & as already said invermect on certain breeds is an issue.

Yep pebbles thats about where I stand too. Well said.
Id also like to add that in 10 years time when our kids get cancer because they patted pussy who was sprayed with frontline will they correlate that to this or will they just put it down to bad luck etc?

Thanks, Showdog. Rimaydl is the one I was referring to. Ben was a Border Terrier.
I still feel it was my fault - I should have asked the questions I usually did re medication but with all this 'modern medicine' it gets hard to stick up for the old fashioned ways at times.
Steve, thank goodness I not "Robinson Crusoe"! Sometimes reading about all the preventatives I think I've been neglectful with my crew but I'll stick to my ways, it seems to work for me.

(Edit to include answer to Steve)

pebbles we groom a mini schnauzer that was 2 years old & placed on rimadyl becasue it had a slight limp nothing major or that required pills except time & patience.
Well this dog within a few days had auto immune breakdown ,got glaucoma as a side effect in 1 eye which may have to be removed long term.This dog was lucky to survive but at 3 years has paid the price for many years to come .
I dont have a problem with rimadyl being used in very elderly dogs as it does work but young dogs should steer clear of this drug as there are many alternatives about